Black 47 Interview

INTERVIEW WITH BLACK 47 FROM TheCelebrityCafe.com ARCHIVES

DM) Hello Larry.

LK) Hello, Dominick, a graduate from Stony Brook, or Stoned Brook as we used to call it.

DM) How did you hear about Stony Brook?

LK) I used to play out at the Hamptons, and everything. I also knew a guy who worked at the radio station, Lister. You know Lister, a black guy, a Jamaican guy. That's a while back.

DM) I don't know him. But I'm familiar with areas in Brooklyn you played in. I'm from there...

LK) I lived in Brooklyn a while. Bay Ridge, Ovington Ave, 86th Street.

DM) What made you move to Brooklyn?

LK) Well, let's see. I was living in the East Village or something and ran out of money, and met a guy who had an upstairs floor of his apt I was allowed to play in. Then I was playing in some bar on 86th St. called Tomorrow's about 3 times a week. Because I was playing there about 3 nights a week, I started living in Ovington. My brother came out to the States around that time and he was living with me.

DM) When you said you were playing there, were you playing on your own or with Black-47?

LK) No, this was a long time ago, I was playing with different people then. It was a duo then.

DM) Then when was the official formation of Black-47?

LK) 5 years ago, this month [October]. Chris Byrne and I met in a bar. Chris is from Brooklyn. He's a New York City cop, and we met in a bar, and he was in a band that was breaking up that night, so we decided to form a band that would take over that band's gigs. So instantly we had a band and we started to play. The people we were playing to hated us so we figured we had something going! That was Black-47, and eventually Fred Parcells came down and started playing trombone with us and then Geoff Blythe started playing the saxophone. We had a drum machine first, and then Tom came in later on to play percussion.

DM) So you actually played with a drum machine to begin with.

LK) We still do play with a drum machine sometimes, live.

DM) Why do you prefer a drum machine over a live drummer.

LK) Just two different things, it would depend on the song. From an economic point of view a drum machine was very feasible at first. We could play bars, make a living at it.

DM) Then, who was the one who thought of naming the group Black-47?

LK) I did, it was a term my Grandfather had used in reference to the great hunger.

DM) He used to mention that a lot?

LK) Not all the time, but whenever he mentioned it, there was a resonance in his voice, and I knew it was something special, something that was very dark, brooding, and his own. Like he would change his personality when he was speaking with the folk memories of his father, had escaped the famine, and was passed down to him.

DM) I noticed most of the feel of the band have that dark feel. They're not exactly the 'She Loves You' variety of songs.

LK) There's a darkness to certain of them. A lot of them are uplifting. They don't tend to be of the 'Moon in June'.

DM) Why is that the band's feel is not so 'Moon in June'-ish?

LK) Well the moon in June connotates bad lyrics for me, so I take a pride in my lyrics that they are very specific and about something. Most lyrics I find are just putrid that are out there. If there's any darkness in something... if the lyrics are specific and have a dark feel to them, then the music is going to have a darkness then too. But at the same time, there's always an uplifting feeling to them. Take a song like, 'Black-47'... the two guys that are mentioned are actually escaping the famine, it's an uplifting feel, t's not all gloom and doom or anything.

DM) How do you go about when you write a song?

LK) I do it many different ways, but one way is to get a lyrical idea, even a title or something that I really want to write about, and develop that a little bit, and then write the music to it, and finish it off with lyrics later, around the music. That will take a long time usually to finish the lyrics. Well sometimes it comes very fast, but I might take a while polishing it or something.

DM) Now, why did you call this album 'Home of the Brave'?

LK) I don't know... it just all seemed to point to it. We were originally going to call it 'Road to Ruin', but we found out the Ramones had already used it. We had the idea for the cover, and Home of the Brave just really seemed to fit the cover. The odd thing was that we had already recorded a cassette, our very first cassette we've done, that we called 'Home of the Brave'. And we had a song we called 'Home of the Brave', so it was just something that was with the band.

DM) Did you use any of the material from the first two cassettes?

LK) No... well actually we did, we used 'Too Late to Turn Back', the second to last song on there. It was from one of the first two cassettes. But it wasn't a conscious thing though. These songs were all recorded before. Usually we would call the album the title of one of the song, 'cause they're usually pretty evocative of something. But I couldn't actually find one that summer of the album. Like 'Fire of Freedom' summed up the album before that. I couldn't find a song that totally summed it up, so I was stuck for a title for a long time, and I remembered 'Home of the Brave'. I mentioned it to a few people who didn't know the original cassette and they loved it, so that was that.

DM) Now, have you ever heard a song that you felt that you had written yourself?

LK) Oh yes, I wish I'd written hundreds of the great songs. I wish I'd written any of Bob Marley's, and of Bob Dylan's, and of the Clash's. There is so many of them, there's a lot of really good song writers out there. Not that many right now, but... I'd say the song writing's format is a little unoriginal at the moment, but since rock-n-roll, there has been a myriad of good songs. I could identify with any of them.

DM) How are the dynamics of the band, that you are the main songwriter, and producer of the band? Are there any problems that you are taking those extra roles?

LK) In any organization, one person has to take control, because one person has to be responsible. That's the one who will go out on the limb, not that the other guys don't by any means, but there's one guy who will do that extra bit of work, or if nobody else would do something, he's the one that would pick up the pieces or whatever. I'd been in bands before where I wasn't that totally, and I realized when I started this band that I was going to be responsible regardless if anybody else wasn't going to do it. That's the only way to have a good band is if one person totally cares about what's going on. So that's the dynamic of it. No matter what happens the gig will happen. We will put up on a good show. I refuse to have a bad gig. It's got to be 100% effort all the time. If there's one person who's that was all the time, not just in playing, but in the business side of it, then that person tends to become the leader of it.

DM) Were you always that way with your other bands?

LK) No, I was always a lazy mother f---er most of the time, and I realized that its was probably the last rock and roll band I'll ever be in, so I left rock and roll, because I began to hate it, and I hated the whole music business and I didn't like what I was doing myself so I gave it up, and went back into the theater. I've been away from it for four and a half years so when i did get back into it, I was totally cleansed from it, and I was able to see all the mistakes that I made the first time. Not that I still don't continue to make mistakes, I had a good idea about what I was about this time. And part of it was, the fact that you have to take 100% responsibility for yourself. It's the same in every field, not just in music, but in music it tends to not be that way. It wasn't so much that I was striving for success, but I just didn't want to make the same dumb mistakes that I had made before.

DM) What were some of the mistakes you had made before?

LK) Well, assuming that other people would, do it if I didn't do it. Which is the same way of all sorts of life, in any business, and having a band is a business, for better or for worse.

DM) What did you do in theater?

LK) I was a playwright and a director.

DM) Anything that i would know.

LK) I had a book of plays that have been published recently, called 'Mad Angels'. A number of my plays are done in New York, but are done outside of New York too. A new one coming on December 1st that's supposed to be done in Germany in the spring and another one being done in San Francisco.

DM) How is that having the duel career?

LK) It's a little frantic, a little hectic... I give myself to which ever one is more important at that particular time, and right now the band is the most important thing. So I work the other one around it. Being responsible for the band tends to be the biggest thing always. But there are a few down periods with the band, when you're not putting out a record. The crucial period is when you are either making a record or supporting a record. Occasionally there are a couple of months when not one of those things are going on, so then I tend to concentrate more on the theater, but I still write plays all the time... in the few minutes I can grab. For instance, last night I couldn't' sleep and I got up at 2 in the morning, wrote from 2 until, things like that.

DM) You've done 250 shows, ranging from Patty Reilly's bar to stadiums. Where would you rather be playing?

LK) It doesn't really make a difference. You put 100% into it. The one difference is in a ridiculous sized stadium, where there are almost 70,000 people, you have to be almost twice as big. Your gestures, everything has to be that much bigger to project outward to the audience. In a place like Reilly's you try to draw them in a little bit more. It's almost like clicking a switch inside yourself. It might almost seem the same thing, but there's a different vocal technique for one thing. Throwing in rather then throwing out.

DM) How much of music is based on that kind of stuff? The reading other people, the gestures, the costumes, and the other materials. All the elements of music outside of the actual notes.

LK) Being in theater I'm very aware of stagecraft, and then having a guitar strung around your neck all the time, you don't have the same ability as the lead singer to move. You have to develop other movements. I'm married to a choreographer so I'm around dancers a lot. One of the things I've noticed about dancers is that it's not just the feet, it's the arms or the torsos. That's how they demonstrate with their whole body. I've developed ways to move my arms, because you're kind of limited by the guitar. I've noticed certain moves I make. The stage and the lighting is all really important, but what's really important is the audience. The link you have between them. If you can get that link, then it doesn't really matter the candles you have on stage or the lighting. Good lights naturally enhance it, but it's that one on one with the audience that's the thing that counts.

DM) Recently in the music industry, there's been an upsurge of these compilation albums around one artist. Like the Elton John Tribute, and the Grateful Dead album. If you could work on one of these albums, what would you work on?

LK) I wouldn't be that interested to tell you the truth. I'm more into doing my own stuff. I could have a go at a Leonard Cohen song, let's see. Something that's very understated, under produced so you can have freedom to move it. A very dramatic Leonard Cohen or an old Bob Dylan song. I can't think of any modern artist I'd want to... maybe a Marley song or a Bowie song. It would have to be something dramatic that had an inherent drama song. I can't think of any modern artist although there may be some.

DM) Why do you prefer to do your own stuff so much so?

LK) It's just a trait I have... In the theater i was never particularly interested in directing somebody else's plays... I was more into singing my own songs then singing other peoples. On stage, Black-47 occasionally plays other people's song. But that's one thing, it's a femoral thing that you just do for the moment. The thought of going into a studio and wasting a day... I don't mean wasting, but spending a day of my life or two days of my life doing somebody else's song doesn't appeal to me as much as sitting down and writing a new song of my own and going into the studio and spending a day or two doing that. That's what I mean more then anything else.

DM) That's interesting that you say, "wasting... a day of my life" by going into the studio. I know some people might think "it's only a day, or it's only two days." It seems as if, to you, it's much more valuable in that sense.

LK) Yeah, well... listen to the songs I do. Time is always ticking out in them. Time is ticking out for all of us. There is always that feeling that time is precious, everything is down to now. That is one of the few philosophies that Black-47 has on stage. Do every gig as your last.

DM) What do you do then, in your spare time?

LK) I read. I also have two children. When you have children, there's a certain amount of time that you'd want to spend with them, and you should spend them. As you'll find out when you have children of your own, it tends to take up a certain amount of your time that you normally spend doing other things. Pretty much the only occupation I have, besides writing, reading and playing music is reading. I would say at this point. I don't watch television. I'm an artist... there's no time. I find that time is really tight.

DM) What else would you do that you find is a waste of time?

LK) Watching television. I find television so manipulative. I find it an offensive medium. I find it a dangerous thing. You are ingesting other people's views in a very passive way all the time.

DM) How is television different from reading?

LK) Because reading is more of an active role. You actually have to concentrate on it. With television you can have a glazed look on your face and be off in a different world. Most people who watch television, I would imagine, are thinking about something else at the same time, so they are getting this passive influx of energy into themselves. Also, I find that television is there just to sell you things. I'm not against the medium itself, it's just that it's been so misused. I wouldn't refuse, point blank, to look at television that had advertisements on it. The occasional things I might watch might be on public television. I might watch a Masterpiece Theater or something.

DM) Do you feel that has benefit?

LK) Yes, because there's a little less manipulator... for instance, it's dealing with a classic, so the only way there might be a manipulator is if the director wants to put a spin on it. I find it relaxing to watch too, but, what I'm saying is, I'm not bombarded with advertising messages. But when it comes down to it, if it comes to reading a 'Tale of Two Cities' or watching it on television, I'd much rather read it. I think I'd get more out of it... I feel better reading it... I don't mean that in any puritanical way, that I don't want to be entertained, but I get more entertainment out of getting my own mental images from it, rather then having my own mental images placed in front of my face which i must accept.

DM) Is there anything else you feel is a waste of time, like television?

LK) (thinks for a while) I don't know.

DM) Any time when you say, "I should never have spent those five hours doing this or that"?

LK) Yeah, sometimes if I spend time drinking, and realize I wasn't particularly enjoying myself, that is was just the addiction that kept me there. I don't mean hard core addiction, but the fact that I wanted to drink. I usually drink 3 pints of beer a night, in this stage of my life, and sometimes after the third I'd feel like a fourth for no particular reason, other then boring company or whatever. If there's no particular reason for me to be there anymore, I'd feel like that was a waste of time.

DM) Do you ever find yourself, after a day, saying, "This day didn't hold up to the rest." For example, if you were out with your friends or whatever as opposed to playing at a concert like Farm Aid?

LK) No, no. I don't mean in that sense, because, as you can tell from my songs, most of my ideas come from the friends I've known or whatever. I'm not saying I'm this driven person or whatever who has to go home and work or has to go home and read or whatever. I can hang out just like the other person. I just find that, with a band like this, when you're self-employed, you're always with that little bit behind almost. To keep the thing running smoothly there were those two or three extra calls that I should've made today that might cause a problem tomorrow and really f*%& the band up along the road.

DM) I was wondering if, time seemed so precious, that you would rather do something like a momentous Farm Aid then play in the local pub?

LK) Each moment has it's own preciousness. I don't quantify moments, if that's what you mean. No, not at all. I think trap to fall into, and that would be pretty stupid. You could end up feeling bad about 90%. I you were to think, "Am I having this effect?" Cause I'm not a totally driven person. I might seem that way. I can sit at home and read all day. I have a private side that's just as happy being private sitting at home and reading, instead of being out in the world.

DM) Did you ever have those times, where you started regretting the things you didn't do in your life, because 'time is so precious'?

LK) I'm not that way really. What i might think is, say for instance. Instead of doing so many live shows at certain points in my life, it might have been better if I committed some of the shows to tape. That's a regret I have. Because then I would have them now... I've forgotten the songs. Although I'll never listen to them anyway, I've written a lot of good songs with a lot of different people, and performed them live, and had a great time doing it, and went on from there, and didn't bother to record them for whatever reason. I think that's a personal loss, not a loss for the world, but for personal documentation. (pause) But, I've heard something once that said, "The traveling is as important as the arriving." I've always tried to go along with that.

DM) What do you think that means, "The traveling is as important as the arriving."?

LK) For instance, if you had this, a mad ambition to be a rock and roll star and they spend a long, long time trying to get to that without enjoying that, then everything is set in that moment of arrival. That moment is going to be so overwhelmingly great that it will make up for the whole journey. I've never agreed with that. I've always felt that every moment you have is precious. It's wise to live your life that. Because you're never sure when the next one will be.

DM) You said, "...people striving to become a rock and roll star..." Did you reach that level yet?

LK) (laughs) No, not at all, and I have no particular desire at this point.

DM) What if for some reason, you became a 'rock and roll star', and Time and People magazine, start to love you, and your it...

LK) Well, we've been in Time and People, so to some degree, even though we haven't sold that many records, I've had my 15 minutes, and it didn't particularly... I didn't even read the Time magazine, until I was in Ireland sometime. I knew it was there. It was the arrival, the fact that I was in there, was more important that what was in there. It didn't mean that much for some reason. I wasn't disrespectful or anything. I was very glad that it happened. It was good for bookings, and people were more inclined to take notice of what the band was doing, but the actual fact that we were in there wasn't all that important.

DM) Well, I want to thank you for your time, this has been a great interview.

LK) Yeah, it was pretty deep, and fun.