Pamela Ewen Interview

INTERVIEW WITH PAMELA EWEN FROM TheCelebrityCafe.com ARCHIVES

DM) You discuss the validity of the four Gospels in your book. I've heard a lot about the "lost books" of the Bible. What's your take on them?

PE) Regarding the "lost books" of the Bible, I don't think that the ones I've seen add any new understanding as to whether Jesus actually lived 2000 years ago, was crucified and then returned to life. In order to rely upon those writings as a source of information, I would want to see how they measure up under objective standards.

For example, in contrast to the four Gospels, I don't know of any of the lost books, such as the Gospel of Thomas, that have been dated within the generation that Jesus actually lived, and this tells me that they must not have been based upon personal observation, all of which puts them in the realm of speculation.

While the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are written as simple statements of fact, of personal observation, these other books are written in a more flamboyant style, in the manner typically used for myths and legends. Also, statements in those books, particularly regarding women, are inconsistent with the nature of Jesus, as it is portrayed in the four Gospels. Jesus showed great respect for women.

In particular, the Gospel of Thomas, which has become a popular subject of discussion recently, was found in 1946 in Egypt, in a group of texts referred to as the Nag Hammadi texts. These are believed, by most scholars, to be dated to the third and fourth centuries, A.D., although some Greek fragments of a version of this writing may be dated as early as the end of the second century. In any event, this Gospel and the others that I've seen are believed to reflect the thinking of a group of people, an unorthodox sect, commonly referred to as Gnostics.

DM) Have they ever checked the DNA to learn more about whose blood it is?

PE) There's no DNA to measure it against. However, the blood stains on the shroud have tested positive for DNA and are believed to be of human source. This testing was done in 1995 by Marcello Canale at the Institute of Legal Medicine in Genoa, Italy. Three gene segments have been isolated as well, and these results have been verified subsequently by Victor and Nancy Tryon at the Center for Advanced DNA Technologies.

In the second analysis, the presence of X & Y male chromosomes were reported to have been confirmed. As an interesting aside, the researchers have said, however, that an insufficient number of base pairs (the basic units of DNA) have been isolated to permit any idea of cloning. Finally, the author Ian Wilson, also had the credibility of these conclusions with Thomas Loy, at Queensland University, Centre for Molecular and Cellular Biology, in Australia.

DM) Do you think more evidence will come up to support the validity of the Gospel?

PE) I do think that we will find more evidence to support the validity of the Gospels --archeological, historical writings, and in science, especially in the study of human consciousness. Look at the amazing information that has been accumulated just in the last few years on the Shroud of Turin. The radiocarbon dating results of 1988 are inconsistent with the new scientific data currently available on the shroud. For example, pollen from Jerusalem, identified with faint images of tiny spring flowers that grow only in that area, has been identified. This fact would indicate a date earlier than 1350, the date assigned in the test because of the documented history of the shroud. Additionally, scientists from the University of Texas Health Science Center determined only four years ago that radiocarbon dating is not reliable for the shroud, or any other ancient woven fabric, because of a microscopic layer of bacteria and fungi on the linen that affects the dating. It has also now been determined through chemical analysis that there is no paint on the shroud, and that there is human blood, containing DNA, on it.

The new information is so inconsistent with the radiocarbon dating that I included the shroud for consideration by the readers of Faith On Trial, the jurors, because I think that a reasonable person is entitled to consider and weigh the value of all of this new evidence.

DM) What inspired you to write the book?

PE) I am in the baby-boom generation. I had a religious upbringing as a child, but in the `60s, when so much was being written about the Gospels being only myths and legends, asking "Is God Dead?" and all of that, I became an agnostic. No one could answer the question, "How do you know that they're not just stories, just myths and legends?" I was told that I just had to have faith. As I said in Faith On Trial, faith is a wonderful gift, but it was not given to me.

I spent most of my adult life as an agnostic, but as I got older, the question of whether this is all there is became more important to me. I wondered whether we were just like plants that bloom and die and then are gone. I've been a lawyer for 20 years, so I decided to research the question.

I began with the science, and after many years concluded that the state of scientific knowledge today does indicate that the universe is intelligently designed. That doesn't get you to a personal God, life after death ...but it is a hint of an answer. I wanted my son, Scott, and my husband, John, to have the information that I had found. So I began to write a book -- I knew they wouldn't listen long enough to hear all the evidence, but if your mom or your wife writes a book ... you have to read it! I had written almost 200 pages on the scientific evidence, when it occurred to me that I should also look at the archeological evidence. I then realized that the four Gospels of the New Testament are really just assertions of personal observation by different people. Therefore, they could be tested for credibility just like the testimony of any other witness can be tested.

If their assertion that Jesus rose from the dead could be shown to be credible, that would answer my question. I decided to use the trial process because it is a tried and true method for getting at the truth. It is really the process itself that provides the links for the chain of evidence ...No one piece of evidence will convince a skeptic that the statements of the Gospels which declare that the resurrection actually occurred are true. But the cumulative impact of all of the evidence provides a compelling case-- powerful proof that the resurrection did in fact occur 2000 years ago.

Once I came to that conclusion, I found that I didn't need the book I had started. If you have four credible witnesses whose stories can be corroborated by independently established evidence, you have obtained the strongest type of direct evidence available. People lose their lives, their liberty and their property every day in this country based on less.

DM) Are there any facts in the Bible which are undisputed by both sides? Is it considered an historical, undisputed fact that Jesus lived, for example?

PE) The fact that Jesus actually lived cannot be reasonably disputed; there is plenty of evidence from an historical point of view, outside of the New Testament writings. For example, Josephus, the great Jewish historian, actually referenced Jesus twice in his writings. One passage talks about "Jesus, a wise man ...a doer of wonderful works", and discusses the fact that Pilate condemned him to the cross. The passage is more detailed than this and contains some statements that were possibly added later by Christian writers. For example, references to Jesus as "the Christ"--but the references to Jesus, the crucifixion and Pilate are really not seriously disputed. Faith On Trial has a more detailed analysis of the passage in chapter six.

Josephus also refers to "James, the brother of Jesus" in a description of the stoning of James. In addition, Tacitus, a Roman historian (60-120 A.D.) wrote of Nero's persecution of Christians in 67 A.D. and said that Christians were "a class hated for their abominations." He and his contemporary, Seutonius, both wrote of "Chrestus" or "Crestus" as being the reason for disturbances of Jews in Rome during the reign of Claudius, and this is generally accepted by historians as a reference to "Christ." Pliny (the Younger), governor of Bithynia, wrote to the Emperor Trajan in A.D. 112 to discuss "Christians", and Trajan also wrote of them. The Jewish Mishnah, in one reference to Jesus, says, "On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu."

History teaches that "hanging" was a reference to crucifixion in the first century. Of course, there are many references to Jesus in Christian sources. In fact, almost the entire historical framework of the four Gospels has been verified independent of Christian sources, by historical writings and archeology. Towns mentioned in the Gospels that were believed to be mythological have now been proven to have actually existed. People mentioned, originally questioned, have now been verified, as have facts like medical references. The evidence is objective. For example, the Gospels mention Jesus having drops of sweat that looked like blood the night before the crucifixion, when he was under great stress. That is now known to be a medical condition - subcutaneous blood vessels rupture from stress and the blood seeps into the sweat glands. This is important because it was recorded as an actual observation by the person who wrote the Gospel, but there is no way that the medical condition could have been known or understood in the first century. It could not have been fabricated.

DM) How likely is it that more archaeological evidence will turn up supporting the Gospels?

PE) I think it's likely that new sites and artifacts will be excavated from time to time. Just the other day, the papers reported that archeologists think that they have found new information on John the Baptist. Of course, as cities get bigger and sprawl out over wider areas, particularly Jerusalem, exploration becomes more limited.